Septa Trolleys delayed by Collision Avoidance System

[Art Clemons]

Apparently Septa's new collision avoidance system cannot deal with trolleys fast enough to allow trolleys to operate correctly at rush hour. Septa claims to be working out bugs, but honestly it looks like wasted money for a system that has to deal with lots of passengers during two rush hour periods.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20081130_SEPTA_s_collision-avoidance_program_delaying_trolleys.html

[J***@mailinator.com]

Post by Art Clemons
Apparently Septa's new collision avoidance system cannot deal with trolleys fast enough to allow trolleys to operate correctly at rush hour. Septa claims to be working out bugs, but honestly it looks like wasted money for a system that has to deal with lots of passengers during two rush hour periods.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20081130_SEPTA_s_collision-avoid...

It's an interesting article, but it doesn't explicitly say what the
problem is. Does the new system reduce the capacity of the tunnels
just because it's more conservative about train spacing? Are there
software bugs? Or are there drop-outs in radio or other
communication?

It's also interesting that this system was installed for free by
Bombardier because they screwed up the MFL cars. Will they be
requried to screw up another part of the transit system because of
this screwup?

Jimmy

[Art Clemons]

Post by J***@mailinator.com
It's an interesting article, but it doesn't explicitly say what the
problem is. Does the new system reduce the capacity of the tunnels
just because it's more conservative about train spacing? Are there
software bugs? Or are there drop-outs in radio or other
communication?

The system appears incapable of passing trolleys safely as quickly as
the former by eye and signal system. I have no idea if it can be easily
tweaked to work better, but it does indeed produce slower trips through
the tunnel when there are trolleys in front. It's even slower during
off-peak periods sadly enough. That being said, it's not clear if a
heavily used light rail system can ever have such a system functioning
without delays, I would hope it is possible, but it may be beyond what
technology presently can allow.

Post by J***@mailinator.com
It's also interesting that this system was installed for free by
Bombardier because they screwed up the MFL cars. Will they be
requried to screw up another part of the transit system because of
this screwup?

[k***@mail.med.upenn.edu]

Post by Art Clemons

Post by J***@mailinator.com
It's an interesting article, but it doesn't explicitly say what the
problem is.  Does the new system reduce the capacity of the tunnels
just because it's more conservative about train spacing?  Are there
software bugs?  Or are there drop-outs in radio or other
communication?

The system appears incapable of passing trolleys safely as quickly as
the former by eye and signal system.  I have no idea if it can be easily
tweaked to work better, but it does indeed produce slower trips through
the tunnel when there are trolleys in front.  It's even slower during
off-peak periods sadly enough.  That being said, it's not clear if a
heavily used light rail system can ever have such a system functioning
without delays, I would hope it is possible, but it may be beyond what
technology presently can allow.

I suppose I should count myself lucky that I'm not trying to use
trolleys during
regular commuting hours!

If I hadn't seen that article I wouldn't have known about the problem
since very early
mornings and early afternoons I rarely experience problems using
trolleys.

[Art Clemons]

Post by k***@mail.med.upenn.edu
If I hadn't seen that article I wouldn't have known about the problem
since very early
mornings and early afternoons I rarely experience problems using
trolleys.

13th St and the 40th St Portal seem to be the worst points although the
portal where the 10 trolley merges in can produce real backups if the
system isn't working as fast as normal. Still if trolleys aren't
running frequently, the system has little effect. It would be nice
however to have a working system that didn't slow down rush hour and
even mid-day riding. I normally only get on the trolleys one day a week
and fortunately not during rush hour, but it is disconcerting to see
trolleys stopped at each signal for some distance near 13th ST some days.

[k***@mail.med.upenn.edu]

Post by Art Clemons

Post by k***@mail.med.upenn.edu
If I hadn't seen that article I wouldn't have known about the problem
since very early
mornings and early afternoons I rarely experience problems using
trolleys.

13th St and the 40th St Portal seem to be the worst points although the
portal where the 10 trolley merges in can produce real backups if the
system isn't working as fast as normal.  Still if trolleys aren't
running frequently, the system has little effect.  It would be nice
however to have a working system that didn't slow down rush hour and
even mid-day riding.  I normally only get on the trolleys one day a week
and fortunately not during rush hour, but it is disconcerting to see
trolleys stopped at each signal for some distance near 13th ST some days.

Given when I use it which, in the morning, is before many people wake
up
for the day, and early afternoon( way before most people leave for the
day),
I've experienced no problems at the 40th and 36th St portals.

I infrequenty go the entire eastbound distance to 13th/Juniper. I
usually get off
at 15th and I've never seen the described problem along the route
eastbound.

[k***@mail.med.upenn.edu]

Apparently Septa's new collision avoidance system cannot deal with trolleys fast enough to allow trolleys to operate correctly at rush hour.  Septa claims to be working out bugs, but honestly it looks like wasted money for a system that has to deal with lots of passengers during two rush hour periods.  
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/local/20081130_SEPTA_s_collision-avoid...

How much have they really paid for it though?

This system was supposed to be some kind of "gift" to make up for
the new El train order being late wrt delivery.