NJT Atlantic City line: Go light rail?

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

The NJT Atlantic City line is not a strong performer. Ridership is
light and it has a big deficit. Presently, locomotives with three
coaches are used.

I was wondering how much freight traffic shares this line so that it
could be converted to light rail in the same fashion as the River Line
and use similar equipment. It would reduce 2-3 man crews to 1 man and
use cheaper more fuel efficient equipment. This would allow more
frequent service which would be more attractive, and perhaps the
opportunity to build spurs to populated areas.

I realize the trains couldn't run into Camden and the NEC, but what
about between Race Track and Atlantic City? How much freight now
operates on the line?

Another advtg could be through fast service from Trenton via the River
Line connecting at Pennsauken.

[[e-mail]]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
The NJT Atlantic City line is not a strong performer. Ridership is
light and it has a big deficit. Presently, locomotives with three
coaches are used.
I was wondering how much freight traffic shares this line so that it
could be converted to light rail in the same fashion as the River Line
and use similar equipment. It would reduce 2-3 man crews to 1 man and
use cheaper more fuel efficient equipment. This would allow more
frequent service which would be more attractive, and perhaps the
opportunity to build spurs to populated areas.
I realize the trains couldn't run into Camden and the NEC, but what
about between Race Track and Atlantic City? How much freight now
operates on the line?
Another advtg could be through fast service from Trenton via the River
Line connecting at Pennsauken.

Interesting question. But how much money would it take? Would you
wind up throwing good money after bad?

Aren't some of the problems w/lack of usage on the AC end?
It doesn't really go any place in AC. That was one of the things
brought up when they originally planned the rail connection.

Didn't it get off to a pretty good start? It was fairly heavy for
Amtrak through service from the NEC and Richmond, Hampton Roads IIRC

Take care, Randy

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by ***@yahoo.com
Interesting question. But how much money would it take? Would you
wind up throwing good money after bad?

It depends on the freight situation. If there is little freight, the
money would be pretty cheap; just buy new cars and off you go.

Post by ***@yahoo.com
Aren't some of the problems w/lack of usage on the AC end?
It doesn't really go any place in AC. That was one of the things
brought up when they originally planned the rail connection.

The terminal should be as close to the Boardwalk as possible. With
light rail it could be moved closer. Further, some cars could
continue up and down to Ventor and Longport. Traffic down there is
horrible.

The biggest problem, IMHO is limited train frequency, about every 3
hours or so. Knock that down to hourly and it's more convenient.

Post by ***@yahoo.com
Didn't it get off to a pretty good start? It was fairly heavy for
Amtrak through service from the NEC and Richmond, Hampton Roads IIRC

I don't think the Amtrak service ever generated that much ridership.

[[e-mail]]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com

Post by ***@yahoo.com
Interesting question. But how much money would it take? Would you
wind up throwing good money after bad?

It depends on the freight situation. If there is little freight, the
money would be pretty cheap; just buy new cars and off you go.

Post by ***@yahoo.com
Aren't some of the problems w/lack of usage on the AC end?
It doesn't really go any place in AC. That was one of the things
brought up when they originally planned the rail connection.

The terminal should be as close to the Boardwalk as possible. With
light rail it could be moved closer. Further, some cars could
continue up and down to Ventor and Longport. Traffic down there is
horrible.
The biggest problem, IMHO is limited train frequency, about every 3
hours or so. Knock that down to hourly and it's more convenient.

But as long as it does not go any place in AC, no one is going take
it, the death spiral.

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com

Post by ***@yahoo.com
Didn't it get off to a pretty good start? It was fairly heavy for
Amtrak through service from the NEC and Richmond, Hampton Roads IIRC

I don't think the Amtrak service ever generated that much ridership.

As I remember it, it did initially. There was through service on the
routes I mentioned, and it went fairly well. As I remember it, Amtrak
did better then the busses from those locations

It was better then the bus, and better then driving, which worked in
Amtrak's favor.
Then it dwindled and they turned it over to NJ Transit, but Amtrak was
still going to run through trains. But maybe my memory is faulty.

Randy

[Clark F Morris]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
The NJT Atlantic City line is not a strong performer. Ridership is
light and it has a big deficit. Presently, locomotives with three
coaches are used.
I was wondering how much freight traffic shares this line so that it
could be converted to light rail in the same fashion as the River Line
and use similar equipment. It would reduce 2-3 man crews to 1 man and
use cheaper more fuel efficient equipment. This would allow more
frequent service which would be more attractive, and perhaps the
opportunity to build spurs to populated areas.
I realize the trains couldn't run into Camden and the NEC, but what
about between Race Track and Atlantic City? How much freight now
operates on the line?
Another advtg could be through fast service from Trenton via the River
Line connecting at Pennsauken.

If the PATCO loading gauge would allow for pantographs on the roof of
the cars, the best solution would be dual voltage PATCO cars and
electrification of the route at 25KV overhead. The second best would
use the PATCO cars and electrify at the PATCO voltage with third rail.
Electrification at Amtrak voltage also could allow for standard EMUs.
Another solution would be to extend the track in Atlantic City and use
overhead electrification at the PATCO DC voltage.

[Philip Nasadowski]

Post by Clark F Morris
If the PATCO loading gauge would allow for pantographs on the roof of
the cars, the best solution would be dual voltage PATCO cars and
electrification of the route at 25KV overhead.

And Sure, but the dual system fleet wouldn't be very useful in PATCO
service, as it'd be a very heavy, i.e., slow car.

I'd put the voltage at 3kv, DC - this would avoid the transformer
(theoretically, assuming your converter could chop the 3kv down to 600V,
but you'd likely lose any hope of regen, though that's moot anyway),
though you could do creative things here, too*. Plus, I'm pretty sure
3kv, with a realistic car, could get you 125mph operation. Oh yeah,
you'd get long substation spacing and you'd have even phase loading,
which might make the utilities happy (i.e., lower rates).

I'm actually surprised, given how common medium voltage drives are in
industry, that nobody's experimented with DC at 6kv or so - this would
be approximately the DC link voltage of a 4160 volt drive. You'd get
much lower pan currents than a 3k or 1.5kv system, even phase loading,
and relatively light onboard gear, and a hell of a lot of punch.

Post by Clark F Morris
The second best would
use the PATCO cars and electrify at the PATCO voltage with third rail.

Yuck. Third rail blows at realistic speeds and requires too many
substations.

Post by Clark F Morris
Electrification at Amtrak voltage also could allow for standard EMUs.

Then why even tie into PATCO?

Post by Clark F Morris
Another solution would be to extend the track in Atlantic City and use
overhead electrification at the PATCO DC voltage.

Which, of all the electrification system out there, would be the
absolute worst - the current constraints of overhead with low voltage of
third rail. Even at 1.5kv, overhead sucks. You have to get above 3k
before it becomes realistic for any long distance/high speed operation.

*I'm thinking of the high frequency, lightweight switcher type
converters, as demo'd by Almost/SMA a while back - though their 15kv
1.5MVA unit still weighed in at 8,000 lbs, suggesting that the realistic
penalty for the 3kv / 600v MU would still be on the order of 10klbs.

[m***@worldnet.att.net]

Post by Philip Nasadowski
I'm actually surprised, given how common medium voltage drives are in
industry, that nobody's experimented with DC at 6kv or so - this would
be approximately the DC link voltage of a 4160 volt drive. You'd get
much lower pan currents than a 3k or 1.5kv system, even phase loading,
and relatively light onboard gear, and a hell of a lot of punch.

This is probably something that was solved fairly early on with electric
railways, but I wonder about arcs at the pantograph. With AC, the arc
is trying to put itself out 120 times (or 100 times, or 50 times, or
33.33 times, or whatever) a second, so it tends to extinguish. DC just
sits there and arcs. This may also mean longer insulators and taller
poles, adding cost.

I also wonder about "electroplating" effects along the whole path from
the catenary to the rails - again, this is probably something that is
well understood, but perhaps it gets worse a lot faster above 3 kV.

Post by Philip Nasadowski
*I'm thinking of the high frequency, lightweight switcher type
converters, as demo'd by Almost/SMA a while back - though their 15kv
1.5MVA unit still weighed in at 8,000 lbs, suggesting that the realistic
penalty for the 3kv / 600v MU would still be on the order of 10klbs.

Hmmm... Get some 500 W computer power supplies. Run 60 of them in a
series string to get 250 V across each input, 30 kVA per string. Connect
50 of these strings in parallel for 1.5 MVA. Float the outputs and
connect them as required to get the needed voltage. That's 3000
supplies - an Antec 500 W supply weighs 4 lbs, so 12,000 lbs total.
These retail at $70 qty 1; assuming you could get at least a 10%
quantity discount, that's about $189,000 for the system. If one of them
blows up, run over to CompUSA and get a replacement.

<watches Philip's head asplode>

Matt Roberds

(Yes, I know that hooking up computer power supplies that way at best
won't work and at worst will result in flaming balls of electronics
hurtling through the air.)

[Art Clemons]

Post by m***@worldnet.att.net
This is probably something that was solved fairly early on with electric
railways, but I wonder about arcs at the pantograph.  With AC, the arc
is trying to put itself out 120 times (or 100 times, or 50 times, or
33.33 times, or whatever) a second, so it tends to extinguish.  DC just
sits there and arcs.  This may also mean longer insulators and taller
poles, adding cost.
I also wonder about "electroplating" effects along the whole path from
the catenary to the rails - again, this is probably something that is
well understood, but perhaps it gets worse a lot faster above 3 kV.

Let's be realistic, there are some advantages to the higher voltage schemes,
i.e. 11 to 14 Kilovolt schemes like Amtrak uses. Less current is required
(watts = volts times amperes), the loss during distribution is less and
generated power can be used over a longer distance. Amtrak of course uses
25 Herz instead of the expected 60 Hz but that's a minor quibble. I see
trackage run at about 11.5 Kilovolts everyday, don't ever remember seeing
an electroplating effect but then again if it's slight enough, I wouldn't,
I don't go around closely inspecting either.

[Stephen Sprunk]

Post by m***@worldnet.att.net

Post by Philip Nasadowski
I'm actually surprised, given how common medium voltage drives are in
industry, that nobody's experimented with DC at 6kv or so - this would
be approximately the DC link voltage of a 4160 volt drive. You'd get
much lower pan currents than a 3k or 1.5kv system, even phase loading,
and relatively light onboard gear, and a hell of a lot of punch.

This is probably something that was solved fairly early on with electric
railways, but I wonder about arcs at the pantograph. With AC, the arc
is trying to put itself out 120 times (or 100 times, or 50 times, or
33.33 times, or whatever) a second, so it tends to extinguish. DC just
sits there and arcs. This may also mean longer insulators and taller
poles, adding cost.

That's a significant problem with DC. DC will arc about 1in/kV; that means
a 6kV system needs 6in of insulators, clearance around conductors, etc.
multiplied by whatever the safety margin is. AC requires significantly
higher voltage to arc the same distance. AC also allows much lower currents
due to the high voltages possible, and transmission losses are related to
currents; higher frequencies also mean lighter transformers (which is why
aircraft use 400Hz and one reason railroads are moving from DC, 16.7Hz, and
25Hz to 50/60Hz).

The result is that DC only makes sense where low voltage, low current, many
substations, and high weight are acceptable. There may be some exceptions,
but in an era of standardizing things to reduce costs and improve
interchange, nobody's bothering to try anything new -- if any work is being
done, it's ripping out the old and nonstandard systems to get to the cheaper
(if potentially less efficient) standards that everyone can agree are "good
enough".

S

[Hans-Joachim Zierke]

Post by Clark F Morris
If the PATCO loading gauge would allow for pantographs on the roof of
the cars, the best solution would be dual voltage PATCO cars and
electrification of the route at 25KV overhead. The second best would
use the PATCO cars and electrify at the PATCO voltage with third rail.
Electrification at Amtrak voltage also could allow for standard EMUs.
Another solution would be to extend the track in Atlantic City and use
overhead electrification at the PATCO DC voltage.

Electrifying for one train per hour is a waste of money at European
prices, and you pay several times as much for electrification.

At > 150 trains per day, electrification is a wonderful thing to have.


Hans-Joachim

[[e-mail]]

Post by Clark F Morris

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
The NJT Atlantic City line is not a strong performer. Ridership is
light and it has a big deficit. Presently, locomotives with three
coaches are used.
I was wondering how much freight traffic shares this line so that it
could be converted to light rail in the same fashion as the River Line
and use similar equipment. It would reduce 2-3 man crews to 1 man and
use cheaper more fuel efficient equipment. This would allow more
frequent service which would be more attractive, and perhaps the
opportunity to build spurs to populated areas.
I realize the trains couldn't run into Camden and the NEC, but what
about between Race Track and Atlantic City? How much freight now
operates on the line?
Another advtg could be through fast service from Trenton via the River
Line connecting at Pennsauken.

If the PATCO loading gauge would allow for pantographs on the roof of
the cars, the best solution would be dual voltage PATCO cars and
electrification of the route at 25KV overhead. The second best would
use the PATCO cars and electrify at the PATCO voltage with third rail.
Electrification at Amtrak voltage also could allow for standard EMUs.
Another solution would be to extend the track in Atlantic City and use
overhead electrification at the PATCO DC voltage.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Clark, this is the way I remember it back when the AC rail was being
planned.

Amtrak initially wanted it electrified w/overhead lines so they could
use the electric equipment that they had on the NEC.

As I remember it, the towns down there did not want trains running
through at very high speed as they do on the corridor.
It is not totally grade separated as is the NEC.

I doubt if the sentiment of those towns has changed.

Take care, Randy

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by Clark F Morris
If the PATCO loading gauge would allow for pantographs on the roof of
the cars, the best solution would be dual voltage PATCO cars and
electrification of the route at 25KV overhead.

As others mentioned, there is not enough service to justify
electrification. The costs of modifying PATCO cars and continuing
trains would be impractical.


I'm specifically puhsing the Stadler River Line cars because they
would run cheaper than what is used today.

[[e-mail]]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com

Post by Clark F Morris
If the PATCO loading gauge would allow for pantographs on the roof of
the cars, the best solution would be dual voltage PATCO cars and
electrification of the route at 25KV overhead.

As others mentioned, there is not enough service to justify
electrification. The costs of modifying PATCO cars and continuing
trains would be impractical.
I'm specifically puhsing the Stadler River Line cars because they
would run cheaper than what is used today.

I still would like to know about your vision for the AC end.

Do you foresee street running? What do you suppose would be the
costs?
I don't believe there is much of any freight on the AC line, so that
is not much of a consideration.

Do you suppose you could get the casinos to pay for it.?


Randy

[Sancho Panza]

Post by Clark F Morris

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
The NJT Atlantic City line is not a strong performer. Ridership is
light and it has a big deficit. Presently, locomotives with three
coaches are used.
I was wondering how much freight traffic shares this line so that it
could be converted to light rail in the same fashion as the River Line
and use similar equipment. It would reduce 2-3 man crews to 1 man and
use cheaper more fuel efficient equipment. This would allow more
frequent service which would be more attractive, and perhaps the
opportunity to build spurs to populated areas.
I realize the trains couldn't run into Camden and the NEC, but what
about between Race Track and Atlantic City? How much freight now
operates on the line?
Another advtg could be through fast service from Trenton via the River
Line connecting at Pennsauken.

If the PATCO loading gauge would allow for pantographs on the roof of
the cars, the best solution would be dual voltage PATCO cars and
electrification of the route at 25KV overhead. The second best would
use the PATCO cars and electrify at the PATCO voltage with third rail.
Electrification at Amtrak voltage also could allow for standard EMUs.
Another solution would be to extend the track in Atlantic City and use
overhead electrification at the PATCO DC voltage.

All those considerations have been rendered moot for some time by the
decision to proceed with the gamblers' express from New York.

[[e-mail]]

Post by Sancho Panza
All those considerations have been rendered moot for some time by the
decision to proceed with the gamblers' express from New York.- Hide quoted text -

Sancho, what exactly is the status of that? What did they finally
decide?

Randy

[Sancho Panza]

Post by ***@yahoo.com

Post by Sancho Panza
All those considerations have been rendered moot for some time by the
decision to proceed with the gamblers' express from New York.- Hide quoted text -

Sancho, what exactly is the status of that? What did they finally
decide?
Randy

NJ Transit bought four P40's from -- who else? -- Amtrak. Supposed to
start around the end of this year, IIRC. That can can be checked
further, on request.

[[e-mail]]

Post by Sancho Panza

Post by ***@yahoo.com

Post by Sancho Panza
All those considerations have been rendered moot for some time by the
decision to proceed with the gamblers' express from New York.- Hide quoted text -

Sancho, what exactly is the status of that? What did they finally
decide?
Randy

NJ Transit bought four P40's from -- who else? -- Amtrak. Supposed to
start around the end of this year, IIRC. That can can be checked
further, on request.

NJT has bought a lot of locos from Amtrak over the years.

What is the proposed route, NYPenn to Philly to AC?
Is there going to be local service or will it all be express?

Randy

[Sancho Panza]

Post by ***@yahoo.com

Post by Sancho Panza

Post by ***@yahoo.com

Post by Sancho Panza
All those considerations have been rendered moot for some time by the
decision to proceed with the gamblers' express from New York.- Hide quoted text -

Sancho, what exactly is the status of that? What did they finally
decide?
Randy

NJ Transit bought four P40's from -- who else? -- Amtrak. Supposed to
start around the end of this year, IIRC. That can can be checked
further, on request.

NJT has bought a lot of locos from Amtrak over the years.
What is the proposed route, NYPenn to Philly to AC?
Is there going to be local service or will it all be express?
Randy

New Jersey's gambling mecca will soon be more easily accessible by
rail - just not if you live in New Jersey.

The 2 1/2-hour express train service from New York to Atlantic City,
scheduled to begin in late 2007 or early 2008, has no planned stops in
the Garden State.

Details are being completed for the new service, dubbed "ACES" for
Atlantic City Express Service. But in the current scenario, the trains
would run nonstop on the Northeast Corridor tracks from New York to
just north of Philadelphia, then head east and continue nonstop to
Atlantic City.

"Our initial thoughts are to go directly from Penn Station with no
stops to Atlantic City," said Michael Walsh, regional vice president
for development at Harrah's Atlantic City. "As things develop we may
stop at other places."

Auggie Cipollini, senior vice president and chief administrative
officer of the Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa, said it's still possible
there will be a stop in New Jersey.

"We're still open to it," Cipollini said. "It's something we're going
to have to partner with NJ Transit to see whether or not that's
feasible."

The casinos are calling the shots because they are footing the bill
for the new train service. A joint venture involving the Borgata,
Caesars Atlantic City Hotel Casino and Harrah's Atlantic City is
purchasing eight double-level cars for approximately $15 million, and
the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority will lease four
locomotives for another $4.5 million.

The casinos make no bones about the fact they are looking beyond New
Jersey to penetrate the New York City market, specifically 20- and 30-
somethings with disposable income who may have balked in the past at
the idea of riding a bus to Atlantic City.

Cipollini referred to research that has shown that while the
population in New York's five boroughs is increasing, the number of
car registrations is decreasing.

"We're using this train as an acquisition tool to expose folks in New
York City to Atlantic City," Walsh said. "We know there's a lot of
individuals who don't have cars or don't want to rent cars, and this
will provide a more convenient way for them to visit Atlantic City."

Under the current proposal, the service would operate on the weekends,
with two departures planned from New York on Friday and one from
Atlantic City. Four trains would leave from each destination on
Saturday and three would depart Atlantic City on Sunday.

Adding trains to the crowded Northeast Corridor should not lead to
more delays, because they won't run during the week between 7:30 a.m.
and 9:30 a.m., the peak weekday hours for tunnel traffic, NJ Transit
spokesman Dan Stessel said. The evening rush hour is not as congested,
he added.

"We have the capacity and ability to provide this service on the
casinos' behalf without it impacting service to our existing
customers," Stessel said.

Fares have not been finalized, according to Cipollini, but he said
they will be competitive with Amtrak's Acela service between New York
and Philadelphia, which currently costs between $76 and $112 each way.
There will likely be a two- or three-tier pricing structure that will
reflect modifications to the train interiors such as added food and
beverage service and roomier seating, he said.

The three casinos will pay for those modifications to the cars and
will also pay for train crews supplied by NJ Transit.

It also might be tough to get a seat at the last minute. Up to 75
percent of the seats can be reserved for customers who book packages
or receive complimentary tickets through the casinos.

For NJ Transit, the new service will not be its first to Atlantic
City: the agency took over the operation of Amtrak's Philadelphia-to-
Atlantic City line in the mid-1990s after Amtrak relinquished it
because of low ridership. The line makes several stops in southern New
Jersey and costs $7.50 each way. In fiscal 2006, ridership increased 9
percent, beating the systemwide average increase of 6 percent.

NJ Transit currently runs about a dozen bus lines from points around
the state to Atlantic City, but no direct train service from northern
and central New Jersey that doesn't involve a transfer in
Philadelphia.

Atlantic City Councilwoman Joyce Mollineaux is an advocate of train
service between Trenton and Atlantic City. Stessel said the issue is
already on the agency's radar.

"We've had preliminary discussions with Amtrak," he said. "It's
something we've talked about and something we're interested in
pursuing."

Star Ledgerr 2/20/07
-------------------


NJ Transit's board of directors Thursday amended a contract to rebuild
timber trestles on the Shark River drawbridge, welcomed a new member
and purchased four locomotives to power Atlantic City casino trains.

A $220,000 contract with HNTB Corp. of New York would provide
construction support services for the Shark River project, which is
scheduled to begin construction this summer, said Joe Dee, NJ Transit
spokesman.

HNTB did preliminary and final designs for the project to replace the
existing timber approach structure to the drawbridge with concrete.

"They make sure our interests are looked out for and assist us as
issues might arise and review shop plans," Dee said.

Ship worms and salt water have contributed to the deterioration of the
wooden structure, officials said. However, the timber approach spans
are safe, and the work is being done to modernize them, Dee said.

Built in 1921, the Shark River drawbridge carries 43 North Jersey
Coast Line trains a day between Belmar and Avon. The project's cost is
$17 million, and one set of tracks will be open for train traffic
during the two years of construction, Dee said.

The work will have a minimal affect on marine traffic because it will
be done on the bridge approaches and not in the channels, Dee said.

New NJ Transit board member Susan L. Haynes, president and CEO of
Cauldwell Wingate Co. LLC, was appointed by Gov. Corzine in March. A
Bergen County resident, Haynes replaces board member Pat Parkinson, NJ
Transit spokesman Dan Stessel said.

The board purchased four overhauled P-40 diesel locomotives from
Amtrak for $9.6 million for weekend express rail service between New
York and Atlantic City.

Last June, NJ Transit's board approved a three-year contract with
Atlantic City Express Service LLC, the Casino Reinvestment Development
Authority and a consortium of three casinos the Borgata, Harrah's and
Caesars to pay $4 million a year to run weekend-only express trains.

The board amended the transit agency's contract with Bombardier to
purchase eight bi-level railcars for $11 million, which also will be
charged to the Atlantic City Express partnership.

The three casinos also are funding $4.5 million of the $9.66 million
total cost. NJ Transit will pay the remaining $5.16 million and will
use the locomotives for regular service during the week when the
casino train isn't running.

Asbury Park Press 5/19/07

-----------

Man, we've got to get you some databases. Besides, they'll probably
keep you out of trouble.

[Joe Versaggi]

Post by Sancho Panza
The three casinos also are funding $4.5 million of the $9.66 million
total cost. NJ Transit will pay the remaining $5.16 million and will
use the locomotives for regular service during the week when the
casino train isn't running.
Asbury Park Press 5/19/07

So NJT is paying $5 for locomotives for a private venture train that
will make no intermediate stops in New Jersey. Those Genesis engines
would run rather poorly in frequent stop commuter trains.

Their claim that they can use them in general service the rest of the
week is nonsense. If they need them Mon-Thu, what happens on Friday when
ACES is running ?

[g***@yahoo.com]

Post by Sancho Panza
The casinos are calling the shots because they are footing the bill
for the new train service. A joint venture involving the Borgata,
Caesars Atlantic City Hotel Casino and Harrah's Atlantic City is
purchasing eight double-level cars for approximately $15 million, and
the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority will lease four
locomotives for another $4.5 million.
The three casinos will pay for those modifications to the cars and
will also pay for train crews supplied by NJ Transit.

Anyone have any idea who is rebuilding the cars? And where are they
coming from?

I thought that, except for the new NJT and LIRR split-levels,
"double-level" cars would not fit on the NEC, and particularly in the
tunnels under New York in order to get to the stations.

[Michael Finfer]

Post by g***@yahoo.com

Post by Sancho Panza
The casinos are calling the shots because they are footing the bill
for the new train service. A joint venture involving the Borgata,
Caesars Atlantic City Hotel Casino and Harrah's Atlantic City is
purchasing eight double-level cars for approximately $15 million, and
the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority will lease four
locomotives for another $4.5 million.
The three casinos will pay for those modifications to the cars and
will also pay for train crews supplied by NJ Transit.

Anyone have any idea who is rebuilding the cars? And where are they
coming from?
I thought that, except for the new NJT and LIRR split-levels,
"double-level" cars would not fit on the NEC, and particularly in the
tunnels under New York in order to get to the stations.

The cars are not being rebuilt. They are add-ons to NJT's order for
multilevel cars, which are built with a low profile to clear the North
River tunnels.

Conventional bilevel cars, such as METRA's gallery cars, will not clear.

Michael Finfer
Bridgewater, NJ