Condition of Phila Budd/St. Louis Silverliners?

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Philadelphia's Budd and St. Louis Silverliners (built 1963 and 1967
respectively) are some of the oldest* self-propelled commuter
equipment in service in the U.S. They will be replaced hopefully late
next year by new cars if the builder is ready.

In the meantime, would anyone know _accurately_ in what condition the
cars are in? I've heard rumors, but nothing confirmed. The cars are
used seven days a week which would suggest they're in good shape.
(Usually less reliable equipment isn't used in off peak service.) The
interiors seem to be in fine shape.

From a passenger's point of view, the only difference between these
cars and the SL 4s is that they have no PA system and manually opened
doors. Their performance is the same, indeed, they can and are mixed
in trains with SL4s.

Thanks.

public replies, please.


Indeed, how many plain coaches older than 1963 remain in regular
service?

[Stephen Sprunk]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Philadelphia's Budd and St. Louis Silverliners (built 1963 and 1967
respectively) are some of the oldest* self-propelled commuter
equipment in service in the U.S. They will be replaced hopefully late
next year by new cars if the builder is ready.
In the meantime, would anyone know _accurately_ in what condition the
cars are in? I've heard rumors, but nothing confirmed. The cars are
used seven days a week which would suggest they're in good shape.
(Usually less reliable equipment isn't used in off peak service.) The
interiors seem to be in fine shape.

...

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Indeed, how many plain coaches older than 1963 remain in regular
service?

TRE has 13 Budd RDCs in daily service that they say were originally built
"in the 1950s". I can't find anywhere the lists the exact year.

S

[R.C. Payne]

Post by Stephen Sprunk

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Philadelphia's Budd and St. Louis Silverliners (built 1963 and 1967
respectively) are some of the oldest* self-propelled commuter
equipment in service in the U.S. They will be replaced hopefully late
next year by new cars if the builder is ready.
In the meantime, would anyone know _accurately_ in what condition the
cars are in? I've heard rumors, but nothing confirmed. The cars are
used seven days a week which would suggest they're in good shape.
(Usually less reliable equipment isn't used in off peak service.) The
interiors seem to be in fine shape.

...

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Indeed, how many plain coaches older than 1963 remain in regular
service?

TRE has 13 Budd RDCs in daily service that they say were originally
built "in the 1950s". I can't find anywhere the lists the exact year.

Meanwhile the Isle of Wight still uses 1938 tube stock...

Robin

[Peter Niessen]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Philadelphia's Budd and St. Louis Silverliners (built 1963 and 1967
respectively) are some of the oldest* self-propelled commuter
equipment in service in the U.S. They will be replaced hopefully late
next year by new cars if the builder is ready.
In the meantime, would anyone know _accurately_ in what condition the
cars are in? I've heard rumors, but nothing confirmed. The cars are
used seven days a week which would suggest they're in good shape.
(Usually less reliable equipment isn't used in off peak service.) The
interiors seem to be in fine shape.
From a passenger's point of view, the only difference between these
cars and the SL 4s is that they have no PA system and manually opened
doors. Their performance is the same, indeed, they can and are mixed
in trains with SL4s.
Thanks.
public replies, please.

When taking the SEPTA 900X, the 26X, the seats are sagged down and you
slip off the front row. Sometimes the air trips and the thing
stops. Running is quiet though at higher speeds. Bike accomodation
sucks.

Cheers, Peter.

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

Post by Peter Niessen
When taking the SEPTA 900X, the 26X

What is the "900x" and "26x"? I never heard of the route 900, and the
route 26 (Germantown-Frankford) is a bus route.

[Art Clemons]

What is the "900x" and "26x"?  I never heard of the route 900, and the
route 26 (Germantown-Frankford) is a bus route.

It's a likely reference to car numbers!

[Philip Nasadowski]

Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
In the meantime, would anyone know _accurately_ in what condition the
cars are in? I've heard rumors, but nothing confirmed. The cars are
used seven days a week which would suggest they're in good shape.
(Usually less reliable equipment isn't used in off peak service.) The
interiors seem to be in fine shape.

From SEPTA's 2008 operating budget:

http://www.septa.org/inside/reports/FY08OperatingBudget2013.pdf

Page 179:
MDBF 2005 2006 2007
Trolley (Subway-Surface & Route 15) 13,656 14,589 11,675
Media-Sharon Hill Line 18,059 20,399 24,387
Norristown High Speed Line 32,295 63,654 34,118
Broad Street Line 122,919 138,824 126,883
Market-Frankford Line 110,263 108,302 134,459
Railroad 53,067 41,463 48,355

That's in miles. FWIW, the LIRR's M-1 fleet was around 30,000 miles
when retired, MN's was about 60k, the M-7s are 200,000+. I don't have
the Arrow numbers. NYC subway cars routinely do 70,000 - 200,000 miles,
depending on series, even the redbirds were pretty decent to the end.
Realize that 'railroad' is all three Silverliner series running now, and
the IVs are supposedly better than the others. The B-IVs and M-4s are
about the only part of SEPTA's fleet that's decent. I'd like to know
why the Norristown cars are so bad, though...

Oh yeah, the bus fleet barely breaks 8,000 miles.

Once the RR fleet's replaced, the subway/surface fleet should be next,
IMHO...

[h***@bbs.cpcn.com]

MDBF                                   2005    2006    2007
Trolley (Subway-Surface & Route 15)   13,656  14,589  11,675
Media-Sharon Hill Line                18,059  20,399  24,387
Norristown High Speed Line            32,295  63,654  34,118
Broad Street Line                    122,919 138,824 126,883
Market-Frankford Line                110,263 108,302 134,459
Railroad                              53,067  41,463  48,355

[NHSL=P&W]

Except for the P&W, BSS, and MFSE, those figures aren't very
meaningful because the fleets are mixed. I understand that Kawasaki
subway surface cars are good but the Rt 15 streetcars are bad so the
"Trolley" figure is meaningless. The P&W is questionable with a big
jump in 2006. The railroad is meaningless since it blends in five
fleets (SL2, SL3, SL4, AEM-7, Bmbr Coaches) each with their own
experience.

The low figures for the Media/Sharon Hill cars is troubling, although
those cars are 25 years old. Of course, we need to know what specific
causes and their degree is causing the low MDBF. Is it time for a
full overhaul? I wonder how other light rail car fleets elsewhere--of
that age--perform.